How big is the 'grieta' (divide) in Argentina?

  • I once met and American-Argentinian guy who told me he stopped going out with a girl as soon as she shared she was a K-supporter. 'There is no way we could agree on big things of life given this premise,' he told me.

    Over the years, I have met some K-supporters and they were sharing little petty crimes of everyday life like they were normal (like being proud to illegally get the cable (TV) from the neighbor's line, or the Internet) and I came to appreciate his decision. There is simply no way to agree with people with different values: it is like Christians vs. ISIS.


    Another thing that struck me is that when someone from the Macri administration (or maybe himself, I can't remember) talked about the cleanup of Plaza de Mayo when Macri took office. This person said that it was a shameful portrait of a country to have people camped in the main plaza in front of the Government building, whereas the current administration criticized Macri for vacating Argentinians from 'their' plaza, judging it 'an act of violence' against the Argentinian people.


    My husband now refuses to buy marmalades made artisanally by a girl of our neighborhood since she gave him a talk on the abortion issued. Like many women in Argentina, she proudly wears a green pañuelo to show her support to abortion... but what has it to do with her marmalades? She simply took the chance to make some propaganda. It was uncalled for and unprofessional, and my husband took it as imposing her political and personal view.


    I never understood why businesses and professionals here always make it clear where they stand politically, since it is counterproductive from a business perspective. On the abortion issue specifically, one can never know the personal situation of somebody else as to make strong comments like there is just one point of view.


    Today, Argentinian historian Luis Alberto Romero tells on La Nación how he and a group of historians realized that Wikipedia entries had been 'massaged' to accommodate the K propaganda. He realized because reputable editors were writing pieces based on information taken on Wikipedia, and they got the wrong messages from what older historian like him knew. Romero and his team realized that they were getting a skewed and biased (and altered) narrative without realizing.


    Certainly, Kirchnerists and Peronists don't read La Nación, Perfil, Infobae and Clarín like we do, so they don't even know of certain stuff that happens in the country. They read Página 12 or watch their K-friendly TV stations so they see only what the K wants them to see/read. However, anybody reads Wikipedia, myself included.


    This week, Mauricio's Macri's 1st biography, Primer tiempo, went on sale and Sudestata bookstore has announced that they won't sell the book. The official statement is that 'Macri did too much damage to the country' and proclaimed they are not kirchnerists but they will continue to sell Cristina's books because they don't consider she did any damage to Argentina. La Nación call it 'a kirchnerist bookstore', though. And it is not the only bookstore in Argentina that has decided they won't sell it and isn't afraid to tell.


    And it was just a few months ago that journalist Nicolás Wiñazki was invited to go eat somewhere else, because the new K restaurant owner 'didn't like what he wrote/said against the Government'.


    Do we really live side-by-side with another Argentina, going to different places, reading different news and voting for opposite parties? Is this like Santo Domingo and Haiti, but mashed up within the same borders?


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  • Alberto may not be my best friend but this is totally ridiculous behaviour...


    https://www.infobae.com/politi…-su-recorrida-por-chubut/

    It is not even clear who/why the Presidential van was attacked. However, this is not the President of all Argentines and he has made it very clear in every possible manner. I don't think they are dealing with the real issues, they are simply putting them to sleep by handing out money.

    However, this is starting to irritate the other half of the country - not for the money handouts, which are 'the norm' but for the effects on society in tolerating certain behaviors.


    If you think at the things you don't do or avoid doing because you are AFRAID to be hurt or robbed, you realized you are indeed suffering of the many years of K policy.

  • The complete political divide within the country is the same phenomenon experienced in the USA for the past 5 years. For both countries’ sake, I wish someone could figure out how to end the factionalism so both countries could begin to solve their very considerable problems.

  • Would you say that the people made outspoken comments to indicate their political view?


    Have you seen businesses clearly indicating (by showing pictures or symbols associated with a political party or another) this?


    Have you discriminated against businesses or people because of their political view? I have (here in Argentina of course) and I am not ashamed to tell. It is simply too a huge difference of values.

  • People - in businesses, in sports, in entertainment - often do feel free to inflict their political views on others. It is irritating, and we don’t have to reward them with our financial support.


    In Argentina as well as in the US, I refuse to watch tv channels that are obvious propaganda outlets. I would never buy bedding products from the company owned by the man who encouraged the US ex-president to declare martial law to avoid having to accept the election results. Nor would I shop at the grocery store chain whose owning family member financed the pre-insurrection rally with her $500million USD donation.


    On a more local level, would I buy marmalades made by a woman whose offensive political views are more important to her than selling her product? Not a chance.

  • If you Google "Mendoza seccession" and click the reader view icon before FT loads, you can read the article. However, I will save you the bother as it is a small group with minimum backing and you're right, there's little chance of this happening.

  • Thanks! I was able to read it. Especially interesting:

    “There is an undercurrent of thought in the productive sector in Argentina that it gives more than it takes,” said Mr Cornejo, who argued that while Mendoexit might not be viable now, the threat could be used to pressure Buenos Aires to restructure the tax system and allow provinces to collect levies themselves — something long sought by regional politicians.


    In the US, similar rumblings are often heard from Texas. Immediately followed by 1) the rest of the country saying “go ahead” and 2) Texas remembering that the rest of the country actually subsidizes it.


    I doubt that the rest of Argentina would be relieved to have Mendoza amputate itself, but in this case, the rest of Argentina doesn’t subsidize Mendoza.


    In any case, in both countries, secession is prevented by our constitutions.

  • While we play with the theoretical idea of Mendoza’s secession, this raises another question;

    El descontento con el gobierno central entre los mendocinos, de quienes a menudo se dice que tienen más en común con sus vecinos en Chile que con sus "jefes supremos" en Buenos Aires, es profundo.”


    Would an independent Mendoza remain that way? Or would it perhaps request annexation to Chile?