What's for lunch/dinner today?

Quote from UK Man

Found this in the cupboard....any good?

perfect!

My pizza is done. No smoked cheese, unfortunately (I only found sliced provoleta) and no olives per UK Man ’s guidelines. 😂

The barter system seems to be emerging. An excellent development.

serafina , your pizza looks divine! I need to try your technique. My breads aren’t rising as they should (and the yeast is new). Perhaps I should let them proof longer?

BTW, that 1890 Norwegian sourdough starter I got from Local Pizza on Gorritti is fabulous.

Quote from Rice

BTW, that 1890 Norwegian sourdough starter I got from Local Pizza on Gorritti is fabulous.

I must admit I have never dared to use sourdough. The level of cares it requires sounds quite daunting. I already have a husband to tender to, I don't need also bacteria that need regular care and love.

Bacteria (which causes the rising) thrive with humidity, and warm environment.

Friends of rapid bacteria growth: sugar and similar sweet stuff (like malt or honey, milk); warm

Enemies of bacteria: salt and too hot water/liquid

Salt coming into contact with yeast (bacteria) will kill it, which is why you should first mix some flour with the yeast, and add the salt only afterwards.

Another tip is to dissolve the yeast in lukewarm water (or other liquid the recipe calls for, such as milk) to make sure it will distribute evenly in the dough.

If you are using solely sourdough, I am not familiar with it and I don't remember if you can use the sourdough directly or if you should make a starter with it, and only afterwards incorporate the flour and the other ingredients.

The oven also plays a huge role - it has to be VERY hot as it is the strong temperature spike is what will make it rise fast. If you use an electric oven, it should be static.

Small electric ovens (like countertop ones) aren't good for baking, imho.

Quote from Rice

serafina , your pizza looks divine! I need to try your technique.

I must say I was very pleased with the results myself. It really turned out scrumptious - 'though with bread and cheese you can't go wrong!. Since I was quite hungry, I decided to brush EVO on top of the rolled dough, before putting the cheese slices. And once the pizza was done, I put some more, added the basil leaves and some ground white pepper. Incredibly tasty with just a few simple high quality ingredients. (great EVO oil and ripe Roman tomatoes in summer would enhance any dish!)

Since I made the dough too late in the day, I wasn't able to make it thin as true Neapolitan pizza, but at least I didn't overcook it. It was definitely better than my experiment with focaccia ligure of yesterday. It had the right look before going into the oven, but none of it when it came out dry and with no holes. I think I should have probably let it rise for less time since it is very hot these days. It think it overprimed. Too bad it took me 3-4 hours to make it, so I should regain my patience before giving it another try.

Agree with all the variables you mentioned. But I’m still having poor luck with proper pre-bake risings.

I think we definitely need a pizza session when I get back. With tall, delicious copas of Malbec, por supuesto.

Quote from serafina

I must admit I have never dared to use sourdough. The level of cares it requires sounds quite daunting. I already have a husband to tender to, I don't need also bacteria that need regular care and love.

If you are using solely sourdough, I am not familiar with it and I don't remember if you can use the sourdough directly or if you should make a starter with it, and only afterwards incorporate the flour and the other ingredients.

Just realized that I never answered your sourdough (masa madre) questions, serafina . First, regarding level of care: not daunting at all.

When you’re not using it, keep the starter in the fridge, in a non-metallic container with a tight-fitting lid. If you plan to make bread or pizza crust in the coming days or week, take the starter out of the fridge and leave the container at room temperature, each day adding equal parts flour and water (adjusted for viscosity until a bit thicker than pancake batter). You will see the starter ‘come to life’ a little more every day, with fermenting bubbles and a gorgeous yeasty smell.

When you aren’t going to be using the starter, simply return it to dormancy by returning the container to the fridge. See? Not as demanding of regular care as a husband!

As for using sourdough alone for a bread, I’ve never heard of that (although you can make fabulous pancakes by building up the starter to the volume you need, and using solely that with eggs, oil, etc.). The bread recipe we’ve used for 33 years uses a cup of starter along with 2.25 cups of flour, along with the other ingredients.

We make 2 or 3 loaves each week, so we keep the sourdough at room temperature most of the time, keeping it ‘fed’ each morning. My brother makes it far less often, so his starter is dormant until he pulls it out and starts building it up for a specific use.

Just read this article today, written by a bread maker and sourdough expert. I think it is interesting, even for all with no interest in baking bread of any kind.

Extra incentives! Free article with no paywall, AND it’s both non controversial and non taxing of the little grey cells!

Opinion | What Sourdough Taught Me, in the Pandemic and Beyond (Gift Article)

When the world around us stops making sense, I find comfort and clarity in bread.

www.nytimes.com

Quote from Rice

Just realized that I never answered your sourdough (masa madre) questions, serafina . First, regarding level of care: not daunting at all.

I agree, keeping a sourdough starter alive and ready for recipes is simple. We have had the same one going for 10+ years. It takes 5 minutes to discard a part and refresh it once per week. That newly fed jar sits on the counter overnight to be used to start a bread recipe the next day. Then the jar goes back into the fridge for a week. We mainly make 2 loaves, once per week for our morning toast. Occasionally a 15-24hr pizza dough.

Now I really have to try it! What find of flour should I use? Regular one? Strong one?

We use regular flour. Bread flour gives a finer texture, but part of the appeal of sourdough bread to us, is the rough, country bread texture.

Until we scored the 1890 Norwegian starter in BsAs, we’d been using one we got in Alaska in 1991, also good. But the bread made with the Norwegian starter is noticeably tastier.

We like to cover our starter container with cheesecloth and put it on a windowsill or outside, to collect wild yeast, which of course is unique to each location. Not really sure we can taste a difference, but it’s fun to fantasize about it!

Quote from serafina

What find of flour should I use?

Our starter is Rye centeno since when we began I read it was easier. We have had other offshoots refreshed with whole wheat though never kept up the desire to maintain a second starter for very long.

We use the organic whole wheat found at most dietéticas for our toast recipe. I am sure it varies. They are probably all high in protein. It is more difficult in summer since it over-proofs fast. If there is room in the fridge that helps to slow it down. I know our bread is not super compared to others, but there are too many recipes and techniques to attempt a change in our weekly habit. Occasionally I will experiment with a one time recipe.

For pizza we use this non-integral brand from the market. 12% protein and they say designed for masa madre breads. There is at least one other similar designed for masa madre brand found in the market.

aficionado , I think it’s impressive that you have found bread recommended for masa madre. I’ve never even found that in the vast US supermarkets.

Also, I’m envious that you have to watch for over-proofing. My only complaint about our bread is that it doesn’t consistently rise as much as it should.

What we noticed 33 years ago when we started making sourdough bread was that the bread is good, but the toast is sublime!

Quote from aficionado

For pizza we use this non-integral brand from the market. 12% protein and they say designed for masa madre breads. There is at least one other similar designed for masa madre brand found in the market.

Do you use 100% of this or do you mix it with regular 0000 flour?

I recently took a pizza short-course at a local baking school and we were using this one. However, albeit inspecting the bag, I wasn't able to fidn the strength value. According to my instructor, it was similar to the one of the supermarket green one that you have linked.

Quote from serafina

Do you use 100% of this or do you mix it with regular 0000 flour?

We use only that. Plus dusting with organic whole wheat later when it needs to be handled, since it is high hydration.

Something like this, but skip the generic yeast ingredient. Use discarded starter or fresh.

Sourdough Starter, America’s Rising Pet (Gift Article)

Adopt it, feed it, even name it. You’ll be paid back in lofty doughs and pungent breads.

www.nytimes.com

Quote from Rice

Also, I’m envious that you have to watch for over-proofing. My only complaint about our bread is that it doesn’t consistently rise as much as it should.

I understand the whole wheat has higher gluten properties which is a reason for the faster proof. The over-proofed looks deflated before starting to cook, resulting in a no-rise dense bread loaf. We have the same issue other times when what seemed like good dough, it just does not rise. Other times it is airy and perfect.

You are lazier than an gaucho, UK Man !

You could try those mushrooms you found in the garden UK Man