My mother died of pneumonia too, she had MS for years before and went at 38 years old back in 1997. No one in my family says the pneumonia killed her, it was the MS. I see it the same with COVID. If someone has had something for years but COVID pushes them over the edge so to speak, the COVID is just a consequence in my eyes.
Almost all patients have underlying health issues when COVID claims them.
TB is another infectious disease that attacks the lungs, is in the worlds top 10 killers each year, and will kill around 1.2 million people in 2020. Most those deaths will be in Africa and during the COVID 19 crisis many sufferers of TB are not getting diagnosis and treatment because all hands are on deck for COVID.
Of course, the reason for this is obvious. TB mostly kills Africans riddled with HIV, whereas COVID will also kill rich elites with a bad ticker.
That said, those who dismiss COVID are wrong, it’s the real deal and without lockdown at the minimum worst it would have overwhelmed health services. I just cannot shake the feeling, though, that too many eggs have been thrown into one basket.
AIDS and COVID are not really good comparables other than they are viruses. If you don't want to get AIDS you can avoid it pretty well. I think it's becoming increasingly clear that most of us are probably not going to avoid COVID, one way or another. So, that's why I think the lockdown is pointless other than to make the spread of the virus take longer as not to overrun health services. And while that is a noble goal, I have made my feelings clear that I don't think that's the goal of Argentina's lockdown... not now anyway.
If 70% could get COVID without lockdown (let's say), I would guess 70% will get it regardless. It's more a question of when not if.
For example, my building has been incredibly strict on COVID. One in the elevator at a time, no guests whatsoever, religous cleaning of common areas, threats of legal action for those doing even something close to breaking the rules, etc. etc. etc. Yesterday a letter circultated saying someone in the building has COVID-19. Go figure. So even despite those strict efforts the virus is here and it will now spread around the building.
Of course, I am ignoring the near certainty that people in the building have already had it. The man/woman who has it now is asymptomatic which most of us will be when we get it. Still, I will continue to practise my own personal protection as if I can be one of 20%, 30% (or whatever number) who avoids it.
It has to be for an increase in testing, surely?
Anyway, I'm not buying any of these wacky government control theories at all. Scaring us to stay at home and control our lives?
There may be an element in any government that enjoys that kind of control, but frankly I don't see it here. Venezuela, maybe.
Oops, I can see who's coming now...
I am the one who thinks Politicians here have designs on making this country like Venezuela. Or more accurately, like Venezuela 5-10 years ago. I am glad you seen me coming.
You don’t see government control here? Have an asado in your house tonight with 20 guests. Go to a Féria or mall this weekend. Go for a run or walk in the park at 2 in the afternoon. Tell the next copper who asks you won’t show them your DNI. The question about government control or not has sailed. You’re already under it. Why is the important detail.
And I think considering the history of Argentina and especially this political regime, saying there are underhand tactics being used to gain economic control is hardly wacky. Even if the sole motive is to discredit and remove Laretta as a threat, it is is hardly a wacky idea.
And more testing doesn’t explain the rise in deaths, by the way.
I think it would be more reasonable to say that simply diving in with 350k would be easier to check. It would be easier to see if hospitals are overwhelmed, if the health services are straining.
However, I am not behind the idea the numbers are cooked. That said, it is obvious something is wrong when we were all locked down for three months and we're getting an outbreak now. No-one seems to be able to answer why the virus is spreading now when it should have been spreading in March/April?
It doesn't make sense and the "oh this is a weird virus" argument doesn't wash. Yes, COVID-19 is surprising in many ways, but we have learned enough about it during the pandemic to understand what is happening in Argentina is not normal. Is there any other country in the world experiencing a reverse outbreak? We went into lockdown to achieve an outbreak not to curb one.
I'd still like to know exactly where this occurred.
Yeah sorry, I stupidly assumed people know my local area. It was the bridge crossing at Tinogasta and G.Paz.
Btw, I am also hearing some sticky things are happening under the bridge crossing from Juan B. Justo to Provincia in Liniers but admittedly these are unconfirmed stories. However, I have been told by a lot of people to avoid this crossing if possible and take another one. Apparently for this area, the crossing at Beiro and G.Paz is a good bet because there are two bridges and its a busier/wider road so harder to police.
The daily infections are increasing at an alarming rate.
Well, we can debate about what an alarming rate is. I think an alarming rate is what we saw in Italy, UK, France, Spain, and US. But point taken, cases are on the rise. Funnily enough, that's happening three months into a lockdown and not at the start. I am shocked that some people don't see that it is supposed to be the opposite.
Why would that be the case?
Inherent xenophobia in Argentina, especially towards Brits. I think we forget that many people actively hate us, and not just those on the extremes. Decades after the Falklands, the government will raise the flag that the UK is the enemy every so often. If things shift towards more authoritarianism (if you think they are not already, go to the mall today, go to a bar, go and play football, go for a long walk, gather YOUR family in YOUR house, etc.) I would be uncomfortable here in interactions with police. If you think you'd get equal or preferential treatment, power to you.
Regarding my Brother in law, he did nothing to prompt such a reaction. And again it could have been a bad cop but then it was happening to others, including those on the bus.
like I say, everything looks to me like the start of an authoritarian regime. However, I still think the ulterior motive Splinter asked for could be as simple as wanting to buy companies on the cheap. Whether you think this has some deep meaning or not, I don’t think we can deny democratic principles have taken a beating in this country in recent months.
We can discuss why it is happening but let’s make no mistake, we are now under the control of the government in terms of where we move, who we see, and how we spend our time. And again it is all the more bizarre because the COVID situation is not “bad” here. I predicted for months the lockdown would go through winter and look what’s happening. The mystery is why but I think Argentina is in a very dangerous political space right now.
For us foreigners it is concerning as I don’t expect we would be treated well by police in situations like my brother in law yesterday.
By the way, I am not dismissing the virus. One of the kids teachers died from it today. Was giving Zoom classes last week and dead this week. He had underlying kidney issues, got COVID and it wiped him out. He had three heart attacks in the last hour.
I am interested Splinter that you don't see a nefarious motive behind what's going on. I read your blog posts and you seem like someone who is genuinely aware when things are going too far. It's not worth repeating the reasons why the government may be employing underhand tactics, but let's just say there are reasons.
I have a story from yesterday that may interest Splinter.
My brother in law (Pablo) is working as a motorcycle courier and has full permits. He took some medicine to an old woman in Caseros around 4:40 PM yesterday and was crossing back into capital. He presented his papers to the police officer who told him that the permits were not valid (even though they 100% are).
Pablo argued of course, in a polite manner asking him to read the paper. The cop said ok I will read again, but as I do you have to get down on the floor, lie flat, and put your hands behind your head. Pablo flatly refused and said no way, I am not a criminal. Ok, so then the cop said to empty his pockets. Pablo didn't want to because he was being ordered around for no reason but he did (he had his wallet and asthma pump. Fine.
Next the cop said give me your wallet so I can check through it. Pablo said no because he is not a criminal. The conversation was obviously getting more heated and an older cop heard it and came over. He send the other cop away and said to may brother in law "do you want to come to the station". Pablo said he would because he had done nothing wrong.
As this second conversation was going on, the first cop had emptied most of the contents of his wallet on the floor, and also put his helmet, gloves, and asthma pump on the floor. Pablo managed to calm the situation with the second cop and he told him to go, but "get your stuff and get out of here fast". Pablo said something along the lines of "I will take as long as I want because I am not a criminal and I did not put all my stuff on the floor."
Now, a few take aways from this:
Firstly, Pablo generally supports Alberto and did also CFK, disliked Macri. I guess for some that may be neither here nor there, but I think it's important.
Secondly, it's easy to put this down to an asshole cop. However, at the same time, other cops had emptied a bus taken all the passengers out and were also questioning their permits. He said one woman was crying, several were begging. They all had permits. One man was arguing with a cop that if he is allowed to go to work because of the permit, he has to be allowed to cross back into Capital to get home afterwards. The cop seemingly disagreed and was saying the permit was only for him to go to work as an essential worker. So, how does he get home!
Thirdly and incidentaly. I have a friend who was walking to the bakery last week. He was stopped by two cops and asked where he was going. He explained that he was heading to the bakery 3 blocks from his house. The cops disagreed and included a nice ride to the police station for him. His 10-minute walk to the bakery for bread turned into a 2-hour trip to the cop shop with an interregation and threat of fine (but he wasn't fined).
Nothing above is something that should happen and the legality around all of them is questionable. If anyone doubts there is something going on here I suppose I wish I shared your confidence. The information above is just from one source (me) and just over the last week. You think I am the only person who has these kinds of stories? Things are changing. Somethings I am seeing and hearing remind me of the early days of dictatorship/authoritarian regimes.
I have been thinking and believe the government's latest moves are some kind of cover up. Call this conspiritorial but I prefer to see it merely as a prediction that could be proven correct or not.
Previously I have asserted my belief the government has plans to extend this quarantine through the winter months. Information I am getting from school officials suggests schools are closed for the rest of the year, which means a lockdown extending until at least Sept. 1 could make sense.
The problem for the government is how do they do this without the people protesting. Incremental increases to the lockdown has been the answer so far, but there's evidence that tactic is failing. So, I believe the government relaxed it a bit, by allowing exercise. It knew people would flood the parks and break rule in the process (out too early, not wearing masks, not respecting distance, etc.).
It's not by accident that the relaxed measures came just as COVID-19 cases in the country got worse. It's supposed to be the other way! So, the government relaxes the lockdown to make it look like it's thinking of the people. Those people break the rules, cases of COVID-19 increase, more people die. Now, the government can sweep back in and either say people broke the rules or cannot be trusted or can say "look, we were afraid COVID-19 cases would spike if we relaxed rules. Because that happened, we need to extend the lockdown more".
So, I think everything the government is doing is with the goal of extending the lockdown. My only doubts are about why they are doing it. Well, I have my beliefs on this but I know people here doubt it so I won't repeat them.
Yep, two different things. It's on the news today and there's talk of this being spread widely at least in CABA. They will come to homes and apartments and test people. I am not against mass testing because it could be a way out of this mess. However, I am against government agents coming to my door and me being compelled by law to let them in.
I want to be clear I am not sure the legality around the situation (if you can refuse, etc.) but the testing is underway in some barrios.
I saw in passing on the news that they are testing door to door. Is this true, they are literally knocking on people's doors and forcing them to do tests? This seems like a violation to me. What if I don't want people in my house, could I say no to the test? Forced anything is never good.
As already mentioned earlier, it seems like the virus is loosing seriously it's power...... great news!
Could be then Indian boy who predicted the virus and now also predict it's disappearance 7. September, could come true!!!!
To me it's sounds weird how a virus could suddenly totally disappear, but let's wait n c!
It’s blizzard isn’t it how this virus has played out. Many media outlets I read in and watch in the US are talking like the virus is over too. In the UK hundreds are still dying daily and they too are changing the conversation. In Argentina, meanwhile, we are looking to a winter of quarantine.
Photos like this are good, and the Cummings thing in the UK. It shows the one rule for you another for us mentality of these people. The layer of bullshit around the lockdown in Argentina is slipping and people are paying less attention to the rules. Yesterday in the few blocks around me it was like a regular Saturday.
I have strictly kept to the rules but next week I am off to a friends house for a drink.
@JAN, I don't think they are planning to extend until the end of August, I think it's already locked in.
Like you, I have no idea how they will make it work but I guess it will have something to do with creating a facade of helping the poor and downtrodden. As the middle class gets increasingly restless, the government will attack them for ignoring the poor. In return, those in the villas will believe the government is on their side and carry on.
It's like the government has tuned out everything in the country that is not related to keeping people locked down. The economy? A symptom of the virus and how dare we be worried about that when people are dying. Then there's the security... a quick watch of any news show will tell you the increase in attacks, robberies, etc. Barely a peep from the government.
It's a shit show. To be fair, most countries are running their COVID-19 containment like a circus, but for some reason in Argentina I sense something insidious below the surface.
There have only been 500 deaths in Argentina. It's amazing and I suspect the government would say that's because of its lockdown. Maybe, maybe not. Remember a couple of months ago when all the news was about COVID-19 having a death rate of 3-5%? All that talk has died down now. I think it's clear, even in countries that had major outbreaks that it is not as deadly as first thought, and not even close.
In the UK, there's a lot of debate around actual death rates. People are realizing deaths are being misreported as being caused by COVID-19 when it may not have been the cause.
500 people have died from it in Argentina, how many have died from other ailments in that time, like heart attack, cancer, etc.? There is always the underlying question of how many could have died if the virus was left to spread.
We have some contacts in the school the kids go to because most my wife's family worked there over the years. It is a fairly well respected private school, especially if you're looking for a Christian institution. Either way, speaking to the boy's teacher yesterday, she told us she has already been told that the school will not reopen this year. My wife phoned some higher uppers at the school and they said it is looking like that is the case and that the decision is out of their hands.
This is another pointer to me that the lockdown is planned to continue at least for the next 2-3 months (June/July/August).
If the government was steadfast behind the lockdown when there were few cases in the villas, why would it ease measures now we are seeing an "outbreak"?
From what I understand (I have some family and friends working in the TV industry here, Fox, Disney, Nat Geo, and TyC Sports. I discussed this guy with them as he always makes me laugh because he looks like he just rolled out of bed after a night of class A drugs and booze and drove straight to work. It seems he is very respected at the channel. I don't watch the news here a lot so I can't speak to whether he justifies that respect, but I presume not.
23 deaths from COVID in Argentina in the last 24HS, highest so far. Interesting as it is happening upon the ongoing relaxation of lockdown rules. I think my prediction that the government will go back to a full lockdown and extend it through the winter is looking more likely today.
I was going down the elevator in my building today and the floor stopped on floor 4. The elevator is for four people, its less than 1.5m square and there's currently a rule of one at a time. The door opened on floor 4 and there was a woman standing there with no face mask and carrying food it looks like she just prepared and was taking somewhere.
I like to give people the chance to use common sense so I said nothing. She walked in and the door closed. I couldn't believe it. As soon as the elevator closed I told her she must be the stupidest person in the whole building. Sure, a frosty 4 floors followed. There's a woman who cleans the apartment who works tirelessly all day cleaning elevators, floors, and common areas EVERYTIME someons uses them.
She is especially over the top about cleaning fair play to her. I told her that the woman got in the elevator with me without a mask and she couldn't believe it too and said she will report her to the administration. I live in a VERY strict building because it was built for ex-military and current military people, who make up around 80% of the occupants. They are already taking legal action against one person who was caught spitting in the outside area between the buildings last week.
It's amazing to me how much control "we" have ceded to government's. Turns out many people talk about their freedom and not allowing the government to control them but it took very little convincing for the western world to lock themselves in their house, allow monitoring of their movements, be told what to wear, be told who to see, told when to see them. etc. etc. etc.
I am not arguing if it's right or wrong, but just how amazing it is the speed in which the world gave up its "freedom".
