Should abortion be made legal in Argentina?

There are 17 replies in this Thread which has previously been viewed 5,946 times. The latest Post () was by Rice.

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    I was actually shocked that abortion was illegal in Argentina and the news made me slightly uncomfortable. I could always take a plane and head back to my home country if I needed, but what about those who cannot?
    With the increase of poor people, abortion should have been made legal a long time ago, instead of giving out incentives for poor people to have more poor children.

    That's a hot topic, highly complicated by the fact that Argentina is a Catholic country.


    Because the USA so emphasizes separation of church and state, it seems logical that abortion, which is not considered immoral by many, should be legal, leaving each person to make her own moral decision. Making abortion illegal increases the chances that women who do not see it as wrong, will seek unsafe abortions. The thinking leading up to the legalization of abortion in the US was that abortion should be "legal, safe, and rare."


    Italy legalized abortion in 1978. Is it a more Catholic country than Argentina? To what extent IS Argentina Catholic? By virtue of history? Population? Custom? Laws?

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    Argentina's excuse that they are a Catholic country doesn't hold it for me. Italy is a far more catholic country and abortion is legal. However, physicians can decide to not practice abortion if this goes against their moral values. Sometimes it is hard to find a hospital with a non-objector physician and plans to always have one non-objector physician on call are hardly realized.


    Generally speaking, it is easier to find one in bigger hospital in big cities, and in the north of the country.


    This is valid also for the abortion pill.
    I was surprised that in Argentina they have a sort of abortion pill sold freely.
    Basically, it is a pill that inhibit fecund action if it has not happened yet, but that won't do anything if fecundation has already happened. I don't think this is much of a solution, you may as well play Russian roulette.



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    in my opinion if you cross the red line of the sacredness of the human life, you can do anything you want if you have a majority in the Parliament.

    The question is not about religious beliefs. Is inside the Western Civilization, from about 100 years back. (Yes of course, anyone could argue about both World Wars, but this is not the point.

    In the USA, Protestants are also against the legal abortion. It is not ony a Catholic question.

    The possible results is that if you allow legal abortion, why you let live a children with a Dawn Syndrome, or a misformed one? Of course we know that the life of that children surely will cost a lot more than a normal one, and the family or the State will have to pay for it.


    The same could happen with the aged persons. Assume that Mr. Jones has 85 years, and he is still well, and all his life was plenty of joyc. Well, the State could say : Mr Jones, you lived very well. It is high time to leave a place for another who is attending your retiree fund. We shall kill you by euthanasia, no pain at all. No hard feelings, of course. No charges for the funeral.

    That is a Domino effect. Crossing the red line puts the Western Civilization close to eugenetics as understood by Hitler and his racial policies.


    As regards Italy, I see that because the reluctance to have childs, Italians as I know will become a minority. Just take a bus in Rome: 40 % of the passengers looks different from the typical Italian.

    Perhaps in 2050 the Italy I knew will be completely different. Of course, I dislike this.

    Another inconsistency is that the man who raped a woman will stay, at the worst, in Jail. The boy inside the womb is condemned to death penalty. I do not see any justice in this case.

    The only solution in my point of vue is to increase anticonception policies and educate the women to take high care of this. The other one, (Chastity) proves to be impossible.

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    I don't see abortion as the end of civilization. Like it or not, it has been around since the history of human kind (or at least since we connected the dots and saw the relationship between sex and getting pregnant). There is no point in fighting it, but to make it legal.


    About aging population, I find absurd that elders have free healthcare (in Italy) and fill in hospitals while there are young people who should pay for healthcare and have to wait long times because all of the spots are taken by people who don't need exams.


    Elders go to the doctors to seek company or to complain about the natural body decay. The doctor wants to get rid of the patient, and the easiest way is to prescribe him/her exams.

    The patient is happy because he thinks the doctor cares and has found something to keep busy at for a few weeks: now he has to book an appointment (and tell and complain about this with friends!), go to the appointment (and tell and complain about this with friends), go collect the results (and tell and complain about this with friends), brings the results to the doctor and find out they are just old (and tell and complain about this with friends).

    There are some states, I recall Sweden, that over 70 years old reduces free healthcare.

    I believe your line of thought only includes children which are conceived by careless people having casual sex and not the case of raping, abuse, ignorance which are the most cases. In these cases, the woman had NO control on the situation in the first instance, and I believe she has the right to get out of it.


    Poor or rich, legally or illegally, women find a way out of it. Or would you rather have unwanted children born to a reluctant mother? Happiness over life, that's my life of thinking. Otherwise we are no better than apes.

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    The yes camp won by four votes and now it goes to Congress which will probably give it a green light.

    I don't fundamentally agree with abortion for personal reasons, especially since my daughter recently sent me a picture of her 12 weeks scan of the baby where you can clearly see the little baby taking shape.

    Has anyone mentioned education yet? Adri's lad was trying to convince me that many women and girls in the villas don't know or have never heard of condoms or the pill or the morning after pill for that matter. the last two I can maybe understand if they have to buy them, but not condoms.

    As all members of this forum knows, I am not accepting legal abortion. Many of my countrymen thinks that we are going to be a first world country accepting this.

    I think we need to follow the first world countries through other means: work ethics, honesty, rational management, hard work and no place for irresponsability. (which is an award now that the women who did not take care herself with the risk of being pregnant is able to resolve its problem killing a baby and paid through my taxes,

    As Paul Johnson said (a well known British writer), if we cross the line of the sacredness of the human life, all evil is possible. Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (1934) is now incoming.


    To tell the truth, I am quite disappointed with this issue.

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    Quote from Splinter


    Has anyone mentioned education yet? Adri's lad was trying to convince me that many women and girls in the villas don't know or have never heard of condoms or the pill or the morning after pill for that matter. the last two I can maybe understand if they have to buy them, but not condoms.


    This country has taught me that some people are really ignorant of the way ‘we’ civilized live. And I am not saying this with a snobbish attitude. Some people don’t even know what a document is, nor that they should register births and death, or that they have rights. Some people are really outcasts and I believe you don’t have to look at Amazon tribes to find these people I am referring to.


    I remember a video from an Argentinian Ministry shoeing interviews to people they helped to get a DNI for the first tine because they had lived all their life without knowing what it was and what being a citizen entails.


    We are debating on ethic ground that most people cannot even conceive.


    That said, I don’t think that men have the same weight as women on the abortion, as it is not their body.



    Splinter: congratulations on the good news! Soon to be grandpa!



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    Yes, congratulations, Splinter ! You will be a terrific grandfather!


    One question in the abortion legalization debate: what about the question of rape and/or incest? Should a woman who has already been violated have to suffer an additional 9 months of physical violation from the rapist?

    Quote from Rice

    Yes, congratulations, Splinter ! You will be a terrific grandfather!


    One question in the abortion legalization debate: what about the question of rape and/or incest? Should a woman who has already been violated have to suffer an additional 9 months of physical violation from the rapist?

    From 1921 in Argentina there is a lw which allows abortion to women which were violated.

    Moreover, no woman which committed aborton were ever punished. even if there is a law.

    Quote from Carlos

    From 1921 in Argentina there is a lw which allows abortion to women which were violated.

    Moreover, no woman which committed aborton were ever punished. even if there is a law.

    I wonder how the legislature made the decision that a fetus resulting from violation of the mother can be aborted although a fetus resulting from, say, the mother's carelessness, cannot. Surely none of this was the fault of either fetus. Which makes the law appear to be punitive towards mothers rather than designed to save fetuses.


    I always look for consistency in how the law treats people. Or fetuses. This case presents questions.

    Quote from Rice

    I always look for consistency in how the law treats people. Or fetuses. This case presents questions.

    The law was done in 1921, when the science did not provide inspection devices to know what is a fetus, if the fetus is still a human body, if his heart existed or it his pace was different for her mother's. The same happened in the Middle Ages. The fetus were only known when died. Leonardo da Vinci did excellents drawings of fetus, risking his own life because at that time inspecting or dissecting corpses was prohibited as a sacrilege.


    Nowadays, science, and no less than science, tells us that since the first month of pregnancy there is another living person inside the mother's womb. It has its own individuality.


    I am really suprised how ideology destroys evidence. Normally those who are agnostics or non believers have enormous confidence in modern science. However, now, when science contradicts them, they change opinion and continues to argue that the fetus is a unique property of the mother, thus giving her the option to kill, as you withdraw an abscess.

    A blatant contradiction.

    Interesting history and point of view. Adding to your comments about agnostics' turning their backs on science, it might be worthwhile to mention that those who deny climate change include many outspoken evangelicals.


    We are living in a time when people simply shrug and reject any scientific findings they find bothersome. We are living in a time when there actually are people who accept so-called "alternate facts."