Jonathan Pie on Trump's victory

There are 8 replies in this Thread which has previously been viewed 3,798 times. The latest Post () was by EJLarson.

1st Official Post

    True, but still depressing because we are so divided that there is no civil discourse. I tried talking with people whose willingness to vote for David Denison seemed at odds with their own personalities, political leanings, and concern for the world's future. Got nowhere. Jonathan Pie suggests "persuading them." Impossible. And now look where we are.

    November 9, 2016: I said, “Trump didn’t win this election. Nobody wants him as President. Hillary, incredibly, managed to lose, and with her followers will blame the loss on everyone and everything but herself.”


    The Pie video, if I remember, came out a day or two after the election. It reflects my views quite well.

    Rice said: “I tried talking with people whose willingness to vote for David Denison seemed at odds with their own personalities, political leanings, and concern for the world's future.“


    You still seem to believe that it was obvious to all that Hillary was the better candidate. Let me restate this fact: Trump did not win. Hillary lost. Those people you talked to? They do not share the view that the worst possible outcome was Trump as President. To you it’s inconceivable, but, clearly, not to everyone.

    Quote from EJLarson

    Rice said: “I tried talking with people whose willingness to vote for David Denison seemed at odds with their own personalities, political leanings, and concern for the world's future.“


    You still seem to believe that it was obvious to all that Hillary was the better candidate. Let me restate this fact: Trump did not win. Hillary lost. Those people you talked to? They do not share the view that the worst possible outcome was Trump as President. To you it’s inconceivable, but, clearly, not to everyone.

    I'm trying very hard to imagine anyone worse than David Denison as president. Bolton's arrival on the scene makes the nightmare even worse, for those who do not want to stumble into another war.


    With what we have seen in the past 14 months, are you really suggesting that Clunton could have been a worse president? Actually, that ANYONE could have been worse?

    I am suggesting nothing, and our opinions are irrelevant in the context of your question which, in short, is “how could Trump win?” The answer, in short, is “because he was the candidate who wasn’t Hillary.”


    How things have turned out have pleased few, but have nothing to do with how he was elected. You are among the many who simply can’t see how repulsive a candidate Hillary was for enough voters to elect Trump - the results speak for themselves. Where we’d be now had she won? Speculate how you want, but we cannot know because we don’t live in that alternate universe.

    Quote from EJLarson

    I am suggesting nothing, and our opinions are irrelevant in the context of your question which, in short, is “how could Trump win?” The answer, in short, is “because he was the candidate who wasn’t Hillary.”


    How things have turned out have pleased few, but have nothing to do with how he was elected. You are among the many who simply can’t see how repulsive a candidate Hillary was for enough voters to elect Trump - the results speak for themselves. Where we’d be now had she won? Speculate how you want, but we cannot know because we don’t live in that alternate universe.

    I let this sit for a day, hoping there might be even one other forum member with something to add to this discussion. "How things turned out have pleased few" is an understatement that tries to absolve those who voted for the very outcome we have.


    While I agree that we cannot know what would have happened in an alternate universe, I also never thought we would be swallowing the concept of 'alternative facts.' And while I certainly accept that many Americans despised Clinton, with nearly half voting against her, I find your choice of the word "repulsive" almost humorous, given the crude vulgarity of the other choice.


    We will agree to disagree, Ed. Meanwhile, our very different reactions underscore the deep divide among US voters.

    Quote from Rice

    We will agree to disagree, Ed. Meanwhile, our very different reactions underscore the deep divide among US voters.

    Do we really? If you go back to all my posts on the subject, you’ll actually find that I have never said anything positive about Trump - although some of the responses sound as though you and others think I have. Read them again - they discuss this theme: how could this clown have won? Did the voters lose their minds? Or was Hillary so despised that even a clown could beat her? Doesn’t that question answer itself?


    A second theme I raised was: so he’s who he is, and he was elected. Does it do any good to endlessly trash him for being who he is? Or would it be more productive and less stressful to talk about what he does? Plenty of fodder there for discussion and invective without having to repeat the same old insults.


    Any assumptions regarding how I feel about this presidency are purely speculative.