Has there actually been an exodus of expats for financial reasons, UK Man ?
According to what I've read there has been. While Argentina is still a very affordable place to live for many it isn't as affordable as it used to be. When living the ''good life'' on the cheap stopped they decided to leave.
I assume they were only here to take advantage of the dollar blue.
Although leaving because the country no longer offers bargain basement prices might have been the precipitating factor, do you think it might simply have been the last straw for many who found the inefficiency and bureaucracy too hard to continue fighting?
I absolutely love Argentina and the Argentine people. But as a renter who also uses public transportation, I’ve never had to put up with all that is involved in purchasing and maintaining a home, navigating between Scylla and Charybdis in trying to buy a car, agonizing over health insurance, waiting in endless lines for various licenses, banking, etc. So for me, Argentina is easier to love than it is for expats who have these daily aggravations. I would expect that there’s a point when many just feel they’ve had enough, and the manipulated exchange rate has been only the final push out the door.
navigating between Scylla and Charybdis in trying to buy a car
This year is absolutely the easiest and cheapest time buy a new car in Argentina. Especially if it is one of the many that are manufactured here. Those factory models that Argentina is also exporting to Brazil and the rest of South America. Most past bureaucracy and delays have been removed.
Also living in an urban area where driving is less often, the removal of the 35% import tariff is a big cost savings to buy an EV or Hybrid. A good opportunity to be modern before everyone else in this country.
Has there actually been an exodus of expats for financial reasons?
I do not have insight about expats leaving in large numbers. Though I feel there are certainly many potential new people who have learned their foreign currency is not as valuable as it was in the past. This has certainly had an impact on tourism and new potential expats moving here.
Although leaving because the country no longer offers bargain basement prices might have been the precipitating factor, do you think it might simply have been the last straw for many who found the inefficiency and bureaucracy too hard to continue fighting?
I was referring to those who spent their time here as long term holidaymakers. Expats are a different breed.
Oh! Sorry, I didn’t know what you meant, UK Man . Tourism is definitely affected by the lowered buying power of the dollar, for sure.
Not your fault Rice as I tend to see an Expat as someone who moves lock, stock and barrel to live here permanently...in it for the long haul. The holidaymakers may stay for many months or even years but up sticks and leave as soon as it suits them. The other forum has/had lots of the latter. They're usually the ones that moan the most.
My hunch is that expats left, digital nomads are still coming, although not swarming in. Probably, the main reason is that it is still one of the most western places to be in the Southern hemisphere.
Some expats because they were living off of their pension, and Argentina was no longer good value for the money. Other incentives were an excellent appreciation of their property in Argentina, who would provide a good payout upon leaving, and closeness to family in the US due to aging. I also feel that those who expatriated after retiring, never fully mastered the language and it can become tiring to deal daily in another language, especially as you age.
Expats who came here during work life, either gave up because of the red tape of running a business here or from here, or because it became increasingly complicated to maintain a business as a resident in their home country while being physically away AKA banks suspending accounts because you logged in with foreign IP addresses, or because you need to physically go in a branch to do something basic as a countermeasure against identity theft/scams.
Some left because they had a better job offer elsewhere and were tired fighting to lead a normal life/business in Argentina.
Personally, when I can work from Italy, it is all effortless compared to Argentina. If you order something online, the shipping charges are often €0, and stuff arrives when it is supposed to arrive. There are many pickup points in regular businesses at no extra charge (MercadoLibre charges more for delivery to a POD than at your home address, oftentimes). There is more choice of products/size/colors. If you order something from China, it actually arrives before your hair turn gray and there is no red tape (I am still reading about people whose stuff is stuck in custom because they have no clave fiscal nivel 3 and didn't declare their purchase on the ARCA/AFIP website). Frankly, it pulls me off A LOT.
I mail a lot of documents for my business, and I am always on the hunt for cheaper courier service. There are a few brokerages that sell FedEx labels for half the official rate or less, but you have to write them on whatsapp, during ridiculous business hours (like 10 to 5 Mon to Fri). Of course they are not open when here is a holiday (min. 1 holiday per month), and takes 2 hours to reply to whatsapp messages. I am often not able to mail out documents on the same day because it takes too long for them to reply, then they said that the waybill platform is backlogged (?), then they stop replying until next day and don't tell you if the pickup has been arranged for the same day or not. so, if by 4 PM no one came to pick up the document, I have to jump in the car and drive to the FedEx branch to drop it off before their pickup time (5-6 pm)
In the end, even if you work for abroad, you may have still to rely on local services/turnaround time. In the US, you can use PirateShip and drop-off your envelopes in one of the many UPS/FedEx/USPS mailboxes. In Italy, there are similar brokerage websites and you can drop-off your envelope in a local shop that also doubles as pick-up/drop-off point.
Here in Argentina, you either arrange for a pick-up (but you can't do it yourself if you buy a label through a local broker) or you go to a FedEx/DHL/UPS branch. If I have to go to the FedEx branch, it takes me 30' each way. So, one hour of work just to mail an envelope. It is not sustainable!
Receiving a payment from abroad is impossible. One day you can link Wise to your bank account, the next one Wise is no longer working with Argentinian banks. The same applies to PayPal. For years, they forced to pesify your USD income from abroad, now it was changed recently... but for how long? They let you buy USD using MercadoPago... it lasted 3 months and then it has been suspended by the govt for 90 days. C'mon, this is not a football game where you can suspend a player for a few games. I don't fall for the local govt. promises, left or right.
Also getting supplies provides limited option. I am seeking for cardboard or backed envelopes (the kind that courier uses, or harder, so that documents do not bend) and they do not exist here. I was tempted to order them from abroad, but after reading posts on FB about people being told by DHL that their shipment is on hold because they didn't complete a custom declaration on ARCA's, I'd rather pass.
I recently needed to get a custom-made stamp, and I wanted it in blue ink so that it is clear that it is a wet stamp even if I scan the record. Of the 6 businesses I contacted, including A LOT - formerly Staples - only one offered blue ink. Another one asked for 2 USD to wash the pre-made black ink pad and add blue ink, the other 4 didn't offer it at all.
Complications, complications, complications (rhymes with location, location, location)
All discouragingly real and important factors in so many people’s decisions. Thanks, serafina for the glimpse into the Grand Prix of red tape you have to face in your work. I had hoped that Milei could appoint a Minister of Ending Govt Runarounds, to help bring Argentina into the 21st century, and more in line with first world countries.
My hunch is that expats left, digital nomads are still coming, although not swarming in. Probably, the main reason is that it is still one of the most western places to be in the Southern hemisphere.
Some expats because they were living off of their pension, and Argentina was no longer good value for the money. Other incentives were an excellent appreciation of their property in Argentina, who would provide a good payout upon leaving, and closeness to family in the US due to aging. I also feel that those who expatriated after retiring, never fully mastered the language and it can become tiring to deal daily in another language, especially as you age.
Expats who came here during work life, either gave up because of the red tape of running a business here or from here, or because it became increasingly complicated to maintain a business as a resident in their home country while being physically away AKA banks suspending accounts because you logged in with foreign IP addresses, or because you need to physically go in a branch to do something basic as a countermeasure against identity theft/scams.
Some left because they had a better job offer elsewhere and were tired fighting to lead a normal life/business in Argentina.
Personally, when I can work from Italy, it is all effortless compared to Argentina. If you order something online, the shipping charges are often €0, and stuff arrives when it is supposed to arrive. There are many pickup points in regular businesses at no extra charge (MercadoLibre charges more for delivery to a POD than at your home address, oftentimes). There is more choice of products/size/colors. If you order something from China, it actually arrives before your hair turn gray and there is no red tape (I am still reading about people whose stuff is stuck in custom because they have no clave fiscal nivel 3 and didn't declare their purchase on the ARCA/AFIP website). Frankly, it pulls me off A LOT.
I mail a lot of documents for my business, and I am always on the hunt for cheaper courier service. There are a few brokerages that sell FedEx labels for half the official rate or less, but you have to write them on whatsapp, during ridiculous business hours (like 10 to 5 Mon to Fri). Of course they are not open when here is a holiday (min. 1 holiday per month), and takes 2 hours to reply to whatsapp messages. I am often not able to mail out documents on the same day because it takes too long for them to reply, then they said that the waybill platform is backlogged (?), then they stop replying until next day and don't tell you if the pickup has been arranged for the same day or not. so, if by 4 PM no one came to pick up the document, I have to jump in the car and drive to the FedEx branch to drop it off before their pickup time (5-6 pm)
In the end, even if you work for abroad, you may have still to rely on local services/turnaround time. In the US, you can use PirateShip and drop-off your envelopes in one of the many UPS/FedEx/USPS mailboxes. In Italy, there are similar brokerage websites and you can drop-off your envelope in a local shop that also doubles as pick-up/drop-off point.
Here in Argentina, you either arrange for a pick-up (but you can't do it yourself if you buy a label through a local broker) or you go to a FedEx/DHL/UPS branch. If I have to go to the FedEx branch, it takes me 30' each way. So, one hour of work just to mail an envelope. It is not sustainable!
Receiving a payment from abroad is impossible. One day you can link Wise to your bank account, the next one Wise is no longer working with Argentinian banks. The same applies to PayPal. For years, they forced to pesify your USD income from abroad, now it was changed recently... but for how long? They let you buy USD using MercadoPago... it lasted 3 months and then it has been suspended by the govt for 90 days. C'mon, this is not a football game where you can suspend a player for a few games. I don't fall for the local govt. promises, left or right.
Also getting supplies provides limited option. I am seeking for cardboard or backed envelopes (the kind that courier uses, or harder, so that documents do not bend) and they do not exist here. I was tempted to order them from abroad, but after reading posts on FB about people being told by DHL that their shipment is on hold because they didn't complete a custom declaration on ARCA's, I'd rather pass.
I recently needed to get a custom-made stamp, and I wanted it in blue ink so that it is clear that it is a wet stamp even if I scan the record. Of the 6 businesses I contacted, including A LOT - formerly Staples - only one offered blue ink. Another one asked for 2 USD to wash the pre-made black ink pad and add blue ink, the other 4 didn't offer it at all.
Complications, complications, complications (rhymes with location, location, location)
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This is precisely the kind of stuff I don't miss! It's just nice that most everything just works as it should...and I don't have to jump through hoops for small things very often.
This is precisely the kind of stuff I don't miss! It's just nice that most everything just works as it should...and I don't have to jump through hoops for small things very often.
Fortunately my missus deals with all that sort of stuff here and it drives her mad. She's just been on the phone to a company and as none of the numbered options were what she wanted she waited to be put through to someone. Noone answered so a tirade of four-letter words followed.
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