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The English language

  • serafina
  • January 19, 2023 at 11:25 AM

There are 13 replies in this Thread which has previously been viewed 2,739 times. The latest Post (March 14, 2024 at 6:31 PM) was by GlasgowJohn.

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    serafina
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    • January 19, 2023 at 11:25 AM
    • #1

    Today I stumbled on the term "Lumber mill". I immediately associated it with wood, but then I thought "wasn't that called timber?".

    Maybe I was unconsciously remembering the brand Lumberjack.

    Turns out there are a gazillion of wood-related terms that I was using rather interchangeably, but there is a whole art with wood.

    Not to mention the usual UK vs. UK usage.

    Quote from https://www.dictionary.com/e/timber-vs-lumber/#:~:text=In%20the%20US%20and%20Canada,material%20(boards%20and%20planks).

    Timber and lumber sound a lot alike, and they both generally refer to the same thing: wood. But when exactly is wood considered timber and when is it considered lumber?

    What is timber?

    Timber most commonly refers to the wood of trees that can or will be used for building material. The word can refer to living, standing trees themselves or to trees that have been cut down but not yet processed (meaning they have not yet been milled or cut into planks).

    More generally, timber can refer collectively to living trees or to a wooded area, regardless of whether the trees will be harvested for wood. When such land is used for logging, it’s sometimes called timberland.

    In some places, such as the UK, the word timber can be used in these ways, but it’s also used to mean the same thing as lumber.

    The trees are especially remarkable during fall. Read about the history of the season’s names.

    What is lumber?

    Lumber typically refers collectively to wood that’s been processed for use as a building material—wood that has been milled and cut into boards or planks. This cutting happens in a lumbermill, and the finished product is sold at a lumberyard.

    Lumber and these other related words are primarily used in the US and Canada. In the UK, prepared wood for building is called timber (and it’s sold at what’s known as a timberyard).

    Where do timber and lumber come from?

    Etymologically, it’s just a coincidence that timber and lumber both end with -mber. Timber comes from an Old English word that was originally used to mean “house, building material, wood, trees.” The noun lumber comes from the verb lumber, meaning “to move clumsily or awkwardly,” such as due to carrying something heavy (like planks of wood).

    What’s the difference between timber vs. lumber?

    In the US and Canada, timber workers have historically been called lumberjacks even though their job is to harvest what’s known in these places as timber.

    In these places, timber refers to standing trees or to the wood from these trees before it’s been processed into lumber—building materials. The cutting of the timber into lumber is done at the lumbermill (or sawmill) and you buy the boards and planks at a lumberyard.

    A good way to remember that timber refers to trees or wood before they’re processed into lumber is to remember that lumberjacks in the US and Canada are known for yelling “Timber!” when a tree is about to fall. (Maybe we should call them timberjacks instead.)

    Remember, this distinction between timber and lumber is mainly used in the US and Canada. Elsewhere, especially the UK, the word timber is used to refer to the processed wood as a building material.

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  • Splinter
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    • January 19, 2023 at 2:34 PM
    • #2

    Nice find!

    I often wonder how tricky English can be. I'm glad I don't have to learn it from scratch.

    A Brit In Buenos Aires

  • daniel
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    • January 19, 2023 at 5:21 PM
    • #3
    Quote from serafina

    Today I stumbled on the term "Lumber mill". I immediately associated it with wood, but then I thought "wasn't that called timber?".

    Maybe I was unconsciously remembering the brand Lumberjack.

    As for as I know, "timber" is used for the trees in a forest, "lumber" is the term used after the trees are harvested and ran through the "saw mill"

    to make "lumber". You go to "Home Depot" and buy a stick of "lumber", sometimes know as a plank, board or just a 2x4, which is really just

    a 11/2x31/2. Just trying to add to the confusion of what to call "timber"

  • Rice
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    • January 20, 2023 at 1:05 PM
    • #4
    Quote from serafina

    Today I stumbled on the term "Lumber mill". I immediately associated it with wood, but then I thought "wasn't that called timber?".

    Maybe I was unconsciously remembering the brand Lumberjack.

    … or were you thinking of the brand Timberland??

    It is, indeed, a confusing language. But I’ve noticed that your confidence and usage have grown through the years, serafina . Congratulations!

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    serafina
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    • February 9, 2024 at 11:48 AM
    • #5

    A term I recently learned while watching a documentary: Irish twins. I wonder if this term will become banned because of prejudice, just like it happened to "jack and jill bathroom" (or "his and hers"), which is now called plainly "double sinks". Always courtesy of documentaries on house renovation/real estate selling.

    Quote from Healthline

    The term “Irish twins” refers to one mother having two children who were born 12 months or less apart. It originated in the 1800s as a way to poke fun at Irish Catholic immigrant families who didn't have access to birth control.

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    UK Man
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    • February 9, 2024 at 12:26 PM
    • #6

    First I've heard of that one.

    When I was young ''thick as an Irishman'' was often heard. The Scots get it as well especially when it comes to money.

  • Bombonera
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    • February 9, 2024 at 1:44 PM
    • #7

    I've never heard the "Irish Twins" term before either.

    I'm no linguistic expert but I think English has a rich and vast vocabulary compared to other languages. I think research backs that up to some extent from what I've ever read.

    I always used to think that English must be quite difficult for non-native speakers to learn because of the vast number of irregularities in grammar and pronunciation amongst other aspects. But so many people learn just fine and dare I say, speak and write better than some natives!

    Languages fascinate me but I'm a terrible language-learner.

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    serafina
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    • March 14, 2024 at 12:38 PM
    • #8

    I'd like to clear a doubt that has been lingering with me for some time about the use of ANY + noun since I am inclined to use the singular noun but the spell checker keeps marking it in blue. I beliebe I am being side tracked by Italian and Spanish...

    Which one is correct?

    If you have any question... (singular noun) - OR - If you have any questions... (plural noun)

    In Spanish it could go both ways:

    Si tenés alguna duda (singular) // Si tenés dudas (plural)

    Thank you in advance!

  • Rice
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    • March 14, 2024 at 12:44 PM
    • #9

    serafina , I’m not sure I’ve ever heard the singular form follow “any.”

    In English, the plural form is more natural, e.g., “in case of any doubts,” “if you have any questions,” or “should you see any stoned rats.”

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    UK Man
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    • March 14, 2024 at 1:27 PM
    • #10

    I would say ''a question'' and ''any questions''.

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    GlasgowJohn
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    • March 14, 2024 at 3:47 PM
    • #11
    Quote from UK Man

    I would say ''a question'' and ''any questions''.

    Thats it!

  • Rice
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    • March 14, 2024 at 5:48 PM
    • #12

    I’d say the same thing as the two Scots. As long as you are using “any,” as you asked, I believe you need the plural form. Can’t immediately think of exceptions.

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    UK Man
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    • March 14, 2024 at 5:53 PM
    • #13
    Quote from GlasgowJohn

    Thats it!

    Guess who failed their English O'Level? :huh:

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    GlasgowJohn
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    • March 14, 2024 at 6:31 PM
    • #14
    Quote from UK Man

    Guess who failed their English O'Level? :huh:

    Dodgy schools in your part of town...

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