Since when did we quarantine the healthy?

  • This press conference by Dr Erickson and his colleague reminds us that our immune systems need our normal lives back and the central question is, why are we quarantining the healthy?

    You have flu or leprosy let's say and you're told to stay home to reduce the chances of infecting others.

    In the USA,50 million people got flu in 2017/18 and about 40,000 people died from it. Was that ever reported? Was everyone locked up, as it the case now?

    What effect will lockdown have on our immune systems? And what will happen when we all go back to work and resume normal lives?

    This video is 50 minutes long, but well worth watching for the science rather than than theoretical data.

  • I think we are more that agree on that!!!!!


    Basically if we could avoid the virus being transmitted to the risk groups, everyone could go out.....very few would die! But still no contact to your older parents or other vulnerable! As you say and what the video suggest, is that this will have a serious aftermath....just think of when astronauts return from a trip...they are totally weak in any way and need to be quarantined until body is ready again! This is similar....just in a smaller scale!


    Let's grab our guns and go on the streets Splinter .......I'm sure we can get a few more in the group!

  • Covid 19 may not have been the exact cause of death for some. but I am sure it was able to use an already vulnerable patient, to speed up the death process. I know people need to work, I also believe that the older in our society will not be able to develop an immune system that will effectively fight this virus. Moving forward in time, I can see more older people dying and even some young people whom may have some health issues.. Let us just hope for the herd immunity from this virus.

  • The panqueque total, the absolutely BoBo Sergio Massa, came with the first ever intelligent remark:

    To keep the judges personal responsible for the ones released from prison! (Will never happen though).


    But seriously, how can anyone think it's a good thing releasing quadruple homicide prisoners, violaters and so on, under the scene to prevent them from coronavirus? Absurd absurd!!!!


    What happens many times here and in Brazil: the prisoners start riots and put all on fire and then manage to get released one way or another.....

    I just cannot understand it, accept it, or understand how ANYONE can think it's a good idea for the rest of the society!!!

  • What, they are going to release them? Under what criteria? I don't see how it's possible. Maybe... maybe if there's a guy in jail for stealing a loaf of bread, but killers rapists, etc. Really, is that even on the table? Can't they just keep them all in solitary confinement. It's prison after-all, shouldn't be too hard to keep people in their cells and not socializing.


    Remove the infected, lockdown the rest of the population to their cells and if anymore get infected either remove them or force them to self isolate. No movement in rec areas or any socializing. Have a rotating one hour of exercise each day. Food brought directly to the cells. No visitors during this time.


    I just thought of that in 30 seconds, surely with a little more thought people paid to think of this stuff could come up with a better plan than possibly letting the prisoners go home.

  • Semigoodlooking .....

    Just open the news, (not the USA Trump news hahaha), then u get it......


    The main negotiator is a quadruple killer..... negotiating with the government!!!!!


    It's not done deal, but it's being discussed!!!!

  • It's not done deal, but it's being discussed!!!!

    Am I the only one who thinks he may be a good fit in the current government? They guy must be resourceful to have accomplished a dialogue from where he is, and definitely won't shy away from crime when the occasion arises!

  • If you like this line of thought, Santiago Amigorena wrote this pieceon Le Monde questioning why it is more important to save lives of those with covid-19 than with other illnesses.


    Santiago Amigorena : « Le Covid-19, à long terme, ne sera qu’une maladie de plus »

    SANTIAGO AMIGORENA APRIL 27, 2020

    Je voudrais poser une question simple : pourquoi les vies que l’on tente de sauver aujourd’hui, en menant la « guerre » contre le Covid-19, nous paraissent-elles plus importantes que celles que l’on ne sauve pas d’habitude ? Ou bien : qu’est-ce qui fait qu’un système qui depuis toujours est absolument incapable de mobiliser le peu qu’il faut pour sauver d’autres vies est aujourd’hui prêt à tout pour sauver celles-ci ?

  • I question both Santiago Amigorena's premise that the French medical system has "always been incapable of mobilizing the little it takes to save other lives" amd equally, his conclusion that that same system is now ready to do anything to save these lives.


    I think when something comes along and smacks the world in the face like a fast-spreading pandemic about which we know almost nothing, it is hard not to take notice.


    Splinter , we both watched the video and agree with your questions, which we both share, about immune systems, etc.

    But at least one of us questions Dr. Ericson's data, which wasn't sourced, so I couldn't check it. I was uncomfortable with the attitude that seemed to use the numbers to support answers he already wanted. Reminds me a little of Southern preachers quoting the bible to "prove" absolutely anything. ER doctors reporting to them that they "were being pressured" to include covid-19 in the comorbidity lists, yet not saying who was pressuring them?


    There are serious questions about lack of socialization for children as well as loss of ground for students who don't learn as well with an electronic teacher. Totally understand these concerns.


    As for the question of "quarantining the healthy," this is a bit of specious reasoning when we are dealing with a virus spread by a variety of methods, some of which probably are still unknown. So, how do we decide who is healthy? Someone who had no temperature yesterday but is rushed to the ER today? Someone who is an asymptomatic spreader of the virus? As for the "quarantine the old" refrain, more and more information is showing that people in their 30's are developing serious problems from covid-19, including fatal and non-fatal strokes.


    Who has all the answers?

  • As for the question of "quarantining the healthy," this is a bit of specious reasoning when we are dealing with a virus spread by a variety of methods, some of which probably are still unknown. So, how do we decide who is healthy? Someone who had no temperature yesterday but is rushed to the ER today? Someone who is an asymptomatic spreader of the virus? As for the "quarantine the old" refrain, more and more information is showing that people in their 30's are developing serious problems from covid-19, including fatal and non-fatal strokes.

    The issue seems exactly how to identify the sick ones, those who should be considered patients but are not, either because of lack of testing, symptoms being misdiagnosed, or being completely asymptomatic. I don't buy into this guy's cheap act! Too many doctors are speaking with too little science and data. I naturally mistrust anybody who talks like they know everything when in reality it indicates they know nothing, except they like to draw attention.

  • Which 'guy's cheap act'?

    From what i could see, Dr Erickson was speaking with science and data to hand.

    But he's using them to prove his point, and when they doesn't seem to lead to a logical conclusion based on evidence but rather cherry picked proofs to support one own's opinion, I don't buy it.

    Scientist are human and as such they are flawed by their own nature.


    Do you think they would have interviewed him if he was going to repeat the same things that other doctors have been saying? Unless you're Fauci, nobody will listen to you if you just make plain vanilla statement.


    I've seen this happening in Italy, too.


    First they had a quarrel about 'yet another flu vs. potentially deadly novel disease'

    then it was lab-made vs. natural virus

    then who should wear mask

    then what kind of mask should people wear

    then are home-made masks effective

    then is this here to stay or will it eventually fade

    then is it worse to die unattended for preventable disease in the name of the quarantine or to risk being infected (and fast-paced toward the light at the end of the tunnel)

    then is it worth forbidding physical exercise when it helps strengthen our immune system

    then it was about 'clinical research' on a very limited sample over a limited timespan


  • Which 'guy's cheap act'?

    From what i could see, Dr Erickson was speaking with science and data to hand.

    I do not buy all that Dr Erickson is saying, their is no guarantee that herd immunity will even work, once infected one may still be reinfected, just like the common cold. What really scares the hell out of me, is if this virus mutates this winter and starts killing the young like it is now killing the old, you will then see the world panic.

  • I do not buy all that Dr Erickson is saying, their is no guarantee that herd immunity will even work, once infected one may still be reinfected, just like the common cold. What really scares the hell out of me, is if this virus mutates this winter and starts killing the young like it is now killing the old, you will then see the world panic.

    I read about that in England too..... children now being under suspicion of a mutation of the virus, though its only a very few, and they haven't even confirmed the relation to the coronavirus yet!

    But as u say, it would be devastating if the virus would suddenly change and start killing other groups. Personally I doubt it though. Last week's I got more positive day by day....just look at the horror countries Italy and Spain.....really start to look much better......and we have still to see how the experiment Sweden turns out.....until now I think it looks promising.

    What I fear the most is the aftermath......

  • @JAN, without wishing to be too positive it looks like many countries have moved through the worst of it. Since the beginning I have been more worried about what comes after. Whether the lockdown lasted 3 days or 3 years, the situation always rested on what happened after it. I still don't think many governments are dealing with that.


    I also want to say I am only cautiously optmistic as virus outbreaks do come in waves. That said, I am not expecting a severe mutation that would entirely shift the demographics of fatalities.

  • I also want to say I am only cautiously optmistic as virus outbreaks do come in waves.

    Do you think we should take our chances and moves in-between waves?

    If each wave could lock you some place for longer periods of time, would you switch place compared to where you are now? For example, to go to the countryside, move back to England, etc.

  • Do you think we should take our chances and moves in-between waves?

    If each wave could lock you some place for longer periods of time, would you switch place compared to where you are now? For example, to go to the countryside, move back to England, etc.

    There may not be any waves. This could be it, cases declining and COVID-19 becomes just another one of those things that may kill us. It might not break out again. It's clearly not going away but it now depends on how severe it is. Something along the lines of how flu works.


    Or, yes it may be we are seeing just the first wave. If that's the case, I guess moving anytime it's possible before winter in the Northern Hemisphere would be a good choice. If COVID-19 does "relax" in the coming weeks and let's argue it will have a second wave, winter in the north is a good bet for when that will happen. So, if you could move before then, sure. Of course, it's easier said than done with proposed travel bans.


    Would I move? In theory I would, but I have 14-year-old and 17-year-old step kids, so it's impossible for me. My wife and I would probably have moved to the UK a long time ago if not for the kids.