There are 1,097 replies in this Thread which has previously been viewed 150,773 times. The latest Post () was by Rice.
I too was bewildered by the British government's latest measures and it smacks of what is now being referred to as 'casedemia'.
These charts show quite clearly the relationship between cases and deaths:
Shutting pubs at 10pm ffs? I don't see the logic in that at all.
Your final line: This has nothing to with public health.
Please elaborate...
Display MoreI too was bewildered by the British government's latest measures and it smacks of what is now being referred to as 'casedemia'.
These charts show quite clearly the relationship between cases and deaths:
Shutting pubs at 10pm ffs? I don't see the logic in that at all.
Your final line: This has nothing to with public health.
Please elaborate...
https://videos.utahgunexchange…vits_WtI2RQjupp9lcRO.html
If you watch this you will get a better idea..
This is what FB and social media are not allowing you to see....This is one of hundreds of videos that are being taken down by professional people directly involved with this but please watch and decide for yourself..
This is worth everyones time...but so many wont listen...The fact this censorship is happening speaks volumes and now they destroy everyone who speaks out ...A google search prior to and then after speaking out shows what they are doing...its criminal what they are doing to ruin peoples reputation.
Now if that was worrying...PART 2 is pretty much Damning..
If you dont want to watch it all i suggest the first 2 minutes is all thats required !!!!!
You present a good argument hairyscotsman, it’s nice to have another perspective.
However, re death rates and virus potency against flu you still don’t address one fundamental difference. The lockdown itself. We still do not know how deadly in comparison to flu COVID 19 would be if left to simply spread without restriction. It could be more deadly than flu, as the evidence in Sweden suggests, but it could be as deadly.
Clearly this is not some super virus in terms of mortality that it was sold as, but without all data, assertions it is just as deadly as flu don’t mean much. Maybe coming years will tell us the full story. I think COVID is here to stay and may become seasonal. If in future years we don’t go into a meltdown over it, we will maybe see how it compares to the flu.
You present a good argument hairyscotsman, it’s nice to have another perspective.
However, re death rates and virus potency against flu you still don’t address one fundamental difference. The lockdown itself. We still do not know how deadly in comparison to flu COVID 19 would be if left to simply spread without restriction. It could be more deadly than flu, as the evidence in Sweden suggests, but it could be as deadly.
Clearly this is not some super virus in terms of mortality that it was sold as, but without all data, assertions it is just as deadly as flu don’t mean much. Maybe coming years will tell us the full story. I think COVID is here to stay and may become seasonal. If in future years we don’t go into a meltdown over it, we will maybe see how it compares to the flu.
It was left to spread in Sweden and the death rate was pretty much identical per 100 000 of population than everywhere that had lockdown.
The main spread of the virus was shown to be indoors amongst family groups after nursing homes which accounted for well over 50% of deaths in most countries . It is certainly clear that locking up the healthy was a mistake based on fear and an agenda.
Did you watch the links....I think they say it better than i can..
Must be election time in the US. Just been listening to some young US medial expert twat slagging off the measures taken so far especially the lack of wearing masks (which seems to have made sod all difference here). He then went on to say noone knows what might have happened or will happen in the coming weeks. 
Honest to God where do they get these arseholes from?
I saw the links and Dr Judy Mikovits has been largely discredited with her claims. I'm not just saying that either.
As I said..they discredit people who go against them . Its not difficult to do when you have full control of internet..Same as all these fact checkers
Who do you think pays for them.
This is the problem ..you see a link..Google name and without actually watching the content have decided she is discredited because of what Google told you.
Watch both links..educate yourself then make an informed decision would be my suggestion.
And I would add her claims and those in other excellent piece of journalism stand up.
When trillions of pounds are at stake there is nothing people will not do.
Display MoreAs I said..they discredit people who go against them . Its not difficult to do when you have full control of internet..Same as all these fact checkers
Who do you think pays for them.
This is the problem ..you see a link..Google name and without actually watching the content have decided she is discredited because of what Google told you.
Watch both links..educate yourself then make an informed decision would be my suggestion.
And I would add her claims and those in other excellent piece of journalism stand up.
When trillions of pounds are at stake there is nothing people will not do.
You're a bit free and easy with your patronising, but just to reiterate, several institutes have discredited her work and I have read them as a counterbalance to your Plandemic links:
https://www.sciencemag.org/new…cking-anthony-fauci-viral
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/AID.2020.0095
Then this video which has viewers saying this "Make no mistake, we are being systematically and intentionally exterminated."
She also claims:
Regarding COVID, she makes three virology/immunology claims, and one public health claim:
We need to ask why on earth would anyone want to plant this virus on us and indeed, who are they? The pharmas?
I find it hard to believe that this woman finds an audience who take her seriously.
It was left to spread in Sweden and the death rate was pretty much identical per 100 000 of population than everywhere that had lockdown.
The main spread of the virus was shown to be indoors amongst family groups after nursing homes which accounted for well over 50% of deaths in most countries . It is certainly clear that locking up the healthy was a mistake based on fear and an agenda.
Did you watch the links....I think they say it better than i can..
I know about Sweden, but you are not addressing the point. You compare COVID to flu, fair enough and maybe. However, where is the evidence this is just another flu? You say in a previous post that it kills the same amount of people. That's not true in perhaps the closest country we have where the virus was allowed to spread (Sweden did have restrictions btw). In Sweden, over 6,000 people have so far died from COVID, while only around 2,500-3,000 people die annualy from flu.
Like I say, you various posts raise some questions but there is at least a possibility that had all countries allowed COVID to simply spread without recourse then it would kill many more people than flu. Restrictions have arguably stopped that happening. I am not neccesarily disagreeing with you, just pointing out your flu/COVID comparisons are only based on speculation.
Regarding your unwillingness to accept when a source is discredited, again, fair enough. However, you say people should open their minds but when you have the chance to open yours when someone shows your source is discredited, you refuse to do so. You seem more set on your opinion and less open minded than anyone else here.
"Mask-wearing "activates the virus," continually re-infects the wearer, and risks killing the wearer via carbon dioxide"
I cannot get my head around the logic of this. How could it activate the virus, which suggests it is dormant on the mask and is then activated. I don't get it. I also don't get the link to carbon dioxide poisning, is that possible? Wouldn't people who wear close-faced helmets daily for hours be at risk from this too? Motorcycly courier (watch out splinter, mask and helmet), welders, etc.
Although, I would like to see the mask wearing ease off a bit. I get it when entering a public place (apartment building, elevator, bus, supermarket), but when I am walking around the streets I never walk close to people, COVID or not, so honestly I have gone to lowering my mask. I don't live in a busy neighborhood and often when walking around I may be the only person on a block.
I find it hard to believe that this woman finds an audience who take her seriously.
I find it amazing any one takes you seriously tbh..
Okay regarding the death rate in Sweden being double the annual flu.
Its all about the way the WHO have instructed Covid 19 deatgs to be counted.
I have explained this before and its still the same..
In a normal flu year if you are at stage 4 cancer or dementia and you contract the flu and then die ..Its not flu on the death certificate as cause if death. With Covid they changed this..why? That's another question.
Mask wearing is a complete waste of time and has the opposite effect.
The virus is airborne and so small that the masks do not stop it. You are doing yourself damage wearing a mask and lowering your immunity..Thats a fact.
Sweden there is zero mask wearing .
Yes carbon dioxide is an issue wearing a mask continuously.
There have been deaths with people working out with masks on.
Why don't you watch both links . They are extremely interesting and if nothing else you will have another take on things.
Up to you what you want to believe..but just because you can't get your head around it doesn't mean its not true.
I find it amazing any one takes you seriously tbh..
The point here hairyscotsman is that you're skirting around your main thrust all the time and getting all narky with Rice isn't the solution.
Do you honestly think this is one huge planned conspiracy or do you think it's a case of us all being led by official case numbers?
Display MoreI find it amazing any one takes you seriously tbh..
Okay regarding the death rate in Sweden being double the annual flu.
Its all about the way the WHO have instructed Covid 19 deatgs to be counted.
I have explained this before and its still the same..
In a normal flu year if you are at stage 4 cancer or dementia and you contract the flu and then die ..Its not flu on the death certificate as cause if death. With Covid they changed this..why? That's another question.
Mask wearing is a complete waste of time and has the opposite effect.
The virus is airborne and so small that the masks do not stop it. You are doing yourself damage wearing a mask and lowering your immunity..Thats a fact.
Sweden there is zero mask wearing .
Yes carbon dioxide is an issue wearing a mask continuously.
There have been deaths with people working out with masks on.
Why don't you watch both links . They are extremely interesting and if nothing else you will have another take on things.
Up to you what you want to believe..but just because you can't get your head around it doesn't mean its not true.
Firstly, I presume you're an adult so I would prefer to engage with you in good faith. At the moment, that would require you to grow up a bit because your condesention and personal jibes say a lot about the information you are trying to pass on. Let me make it clear, and I am sure the others participating here will say the same. Not once in this debate have you angered me as this is a good conversation that I welcome because I am open to other perspectives. But clearly you are getting angered by responses if you resort to personal comments, while you are also showing you are not open.
Now, onto your post. You may be correct about deaths labelled incorrectly. However, is there undisputed proof of this happening in Sweden? For example, did you know around 1 in 3 deaths are lablled incorrectly even before COVID-19? In other words, putting the wrong thing on a death certificate is nothing new. For instance, we know this happens with pneumonia all the time even before the pandemic, probably not so much flu.
If I am not wearing a mask when I enter an elevator and I have COVID and cough all the way to the tenth floor, and when I get out someone enters immeadiately after with no mask. They are not more at risk than if I had coughed inside my mask?
I would have to see some data that shows wearing a mask for a living results in a dispropotionate amount of carbon dioxide deaths. Again, all the information points to this not being a risk. Again, why are motorcycle couriers not dropping dead? In fact, why are we not seeing a spate of carbon dioxide deaths in Argentina, where rules around wearing a mask are strict?
I did watch both links and found the information you are trying to sell to be disturbing. Although, not in the way you want me to be disturbed. I like that questions are asked and it is worth challenging norms. However, I don't buy into the conspiracy stuff you do, sorry. Not least because to what end would this mass organization of medical professionals, the scientific community, governments, frontline workers, and just people who have caught COVID be perpetrating this conspiracy? What's the end goal?
Perhaps I should ask my friend who got COVID-19, fell into a coma, and is now a completely changed man and looks like he will never be the same. I should ask him why he is participating in a grand conspiracy by pretending he had COVID and pretending to be asleep for 4 days.
My cheeky comment was aimed at Rice not you as she has very little to offer the debate apart from sniping.
Ok .Usually there are post mortems however with Covid they are not taking place...How can you expect your data to be taken at face value when a government spokesman comes on live television and admits if you died in hospital and had not been tested your death still goes down as covid . The UK government has just said 28.8% of deaths they originally attributed to covid were not. I suggest thats a very conservative figure.
There are countless doctors and nurses and family members eho can confirm the death certificate has covid when there relative was dying of something else.
In general this is killing elderly ill people. I dont think there can be any debate about that.
Regarding your lift hypothesis. If you are in that lift breathing through your mask the virus is getting out . The mask wont stop it .
The reason they said for masks was asymptomatic people and people who were just infected and showing no signs
There is a huge amount of data that shows asymptomatic are not transferring this virus.
If you have the virus and you dont know you are not coughing and spluttering ..if you are ar that stage you should be home self isolating....and if you are not then your breath is more than enough..as touching lift buttons would be to transfer the virus.
As for you not believing it
.You are not seeing or are aware if the mass censorship of doctors / immunilogists/ epidemiologist..etc etc calling this out and immediately being removed from social media..threatened with losing there job etc etc.
What happened to free speech and why this mass censorship ..surely listening to those on ghe front line of this as opposed to government spokesman and paid doctors from the imperial college london ( gates backed) and preposterous model makers who are always miles off the mark.
Surely we should welcome what they say...not instantly remove it because it goes against WHO and CDC guidelines..because lets be honest .the information coming from them has been diabolical from the start..and they have done so many 180s nobody knows what they think any more.
I am sorry to hear your friend contracted this and had problems .however he is in a tiny tiny minority..i dont know if he had underlying issues or not but its still very sad
And it only takes a few at the top to make this work to there agenda..
This is not a serious illness to 99.99% of the population. Why are they insisting we must vaccinate the who world population...money and control is what this is about.
I am not here to try and persuade you...Im simply suggesting that the evidence does not stack up to what the media / Government are saying...
Delores Cahill ..a word renowned immunoligist spoke out over this..Lost her job but continues to speak out..It is always the voice of a few initially ..history has taught us that.
So yes after looking at ridiculous amount of hours of information on this subject from many different sources ..My conclusion is the same as so many others that we are being lied to and manipulated for power and profit.
According to this article in the Swedish press , things are not as rosy in Sweden as we may have thought...
Its in Swedish but Google will translate it for you
I don't think anyone on here should be lecturing anyone no matter which side of the fence you belong. Most of you know I believe it's been blown out of all proportion 'just to be on the safe side'. Which to be fair is a perfectly natural response from so called experts and politicians who don't want to end up being made to look silly.
To be honest I'm far more interested in what the ramifications of all of this will be for the Chinese. God only knows what they could be hiding up their sleeves.
Figures all over the world are doctored . lets agree on that.
Is it deliberate or accidental? - the jury is still out on that one ...
Yesterday 470 deaths were declared in Argentina / more than 208 were from more than a month ago
How many really died yesterday - we wont know for a few weeks if at all.
I don't think anyone on here should be lecturing anyone no matter which side of the fence you belong. Most of you know I believe it's been blown out of all proportion 'just to be on the safe side'. Which to be fair is a perfectly natural response from so called experts and politicians who don't want to end up being made to look silly.
To be honest I'm far more interested in what the ramifications of all of this will be for the Chinese. God only knows what they could be hiding up their sleeves.
As one of my cousins always says to me was it really the Chinese? He claims the virus was invented in USA.
OK , its another conspiracy theory but with the way figures and information is being communicated , only a very few people knwo the true source.
As one of my cousins always says to me was it really the Chinese? He claims the virus was invented in USA.
OK , its another conspiracy theory but with the way figures and information is being communicated , only a very few people knwo the true source.
That bloody Kirchner woman's to blame. 
Whoever it was it certainly shows how if you're so inclined you can easily 'stop the world' for months or years.
According to this article in the Swedish press , things are not as rosy in Sweden as we may have thought...
Its in Swedish but Google will translate it for you
I read that John..Again i would say that the death rate is the only important factor in this situation.
The PCR test is so unreliable and picks up so many false positives due to it not being able to distinguish between any coronavirus inc the common cold so prevelant at this time of year and also previous flu jabs and dead virus from over amplification.
Here is a snipet from an artice from there head epidemiologist who is also mentioned in that article ..Tegels
The whole article was stating just today that sweden is over the pandemic and achieved herd immunity. As loth as i am to quote a red top i dont have time to search for the articles original . This is a section re masks.
Regarding the American relation to this virus .
This particular strain was being worked on in USA up until 2014 where it was then made illegal in USA to continue with such testing due to the problems it would cause if it escaped !!
They then via WHO outsourced it to wuhan lab and USA continued to fund it.
This is known information admitted by all parties involved after the paper trail was unravelled...
So does that make it a USA virus ....i dont know..but i think the majority accept this escaped from the Wuhan lab..Intentionally or not now that is another discussion and one that will only those at the highest level will know for sure.
This chinese immediate response in Wuhan and steps and measures taken immediately after highly suggest they knew exactly what they were dealing with immediately. They installed a new director of security immediately at the lab after the outbreak reinforcing it was from the lab...
Wet market does not sell bats for a start! And the strain of bat involved was from hundreds if not thousands of miles away in another part of china..
is another discussion and one that will only those at the highest level will know for sure.
hairyscotsman ...Are you implying that the POTUS, or some other world leader, really knows where the virus originated from?
