Half the country is ready to flee Argentina

There are 18 replies in this Thread which has previously been viewed 5,260 times. The latest Post () was by Rice.

1st Official Post
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    I do not think this is a great piece of investigative journalism work, but rather a quite entertaining headline that will either make you think that half the country is grumpy or that the situation is tragic. Either way, a phone survey conducted by Universidad Signo 21 said they would leave Argentina if they could.



    https://www.thebubble.com/poll…he-country-if-they-could/

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    Any article containing the word TOTALLY in its headline signifies that it was written by a social media driven millennial of sorts, which is the case here. It's another one of those headline grabbing non-stories full of statistics that essentially mean nothing at all. The Bubble struggles for decent writers and this article is indicative of that.

    Anyone who has lived in Argentina for any length of time will know that most Argentines believe the grass is greener in the first world, but when push comes to shove, most will never take the plunge and live permanently elsewhere.

    Julian White Davis has written some pretty good articles at The Bubble, but this was totally not one of his best.

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    I suppose it is hard to keep up a newspaper, both in terms of publishing interesting and meaningful content and making it financially viable. The Bubble mainly makes up articles based on information published on other medias in Spanish, I guess. I have never seen an article where there is actually any journalistic work going beyond rewriting. Never a first hand interview, an investigative piece by one of their journalists, etc. I do not read it thoroughly, but do they have 'experts' journalists for the various topics covered? A politics editor, an economy editor, etc?


    Who finances the Bubble? When I read a newspaper publishes articles by interns, it is a sign that they are underfunded and hence its quality it is going to decline. Unfortunately, this seems to be a trend also in well established newspapers such as La Nación and other Italian newspapers I read. Poor spelling, badly rewritten news, and the same articles being posted over and over (the ones related to science, culture and 'cute stuff driving clicks'). This happens when you work quickly and hire cheap, unexperienced professionals.

    Quote from serafina

    Poor spelling, badly rewritten news, and the same articles being posted over and over (the ones related to science, culture and 'cute stuff driving clicks'). This happens when you work quickly and hire cheap, unexperienced professionals.

    ... and don’t hire proofreaders or an editor with a modicum of experience.

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    They would just need to use their current proofreaders, however there is so much more content to supply nowadays that it is really a humongous work.

    If older newspaper were published once per day, modern ones are published several times a day.


    On a side note, I have noticed that if you befriend La Nación on FB and you clic on their shared articles, you can read them just fine, whereas if you clic on the same article from within LN website, you get the paywall.

    Stop and ask 100 Glaswegians on a cold dark wet day in January whether they'd prefer to live somewhere warm and I'm sure the majority would say yes. ^^


    Having said that there has been quite an increase this year in Argentines inquiring if they qualify for a Spanish passport. Can't say I blame them either. Of the small number who do qualify few actually ever make the move a permanent one though.

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    I am in a group of Americans (as in from the US) pursuing Italian citizenship and it is crazy! There is such a business around it... genealogists, document finders, consultants, attorneys, translators, escorting services for those applying in Italy trying to cut back times ecc.

    They made 50+-page guides for every possible case iure sanguinis and iure matrimoni, have thousands of members, make giveaways, take selfies in front of the consulate with their passports in hands...


    Argentinians are the same, but are less polite in approaching the issue - they are demanding. There is a FB page for the Italian Consulate in BsAs which is flooded with questions on how to get Italian citizenship, why the consulate is not replying, why they haven't yet heard about their case, etc. So many demanding people... but the consulate had to cut down on the number of citizenship applications handled daily or they would stop doing other things.


    If you try to approach the Consulate for any question you might have, it is almost impossible to get on the phone with them because the lines are always busy with people trying to get Italian citizenship.


    There are services claiming (falsely) they can get you an appointment for a few hundred dollars, there are crazy people paying for it. There are citizenship assistance service where they describe Italian citizenship like a vacation "get free healthcare, get to live and work anywhere in Europe"... it is shameful, really.


    I read that during the 2001 crisis there were tents outside of the consulate in Buenos Aires of people queuing to get an appointment for their citizenship. 8|




    Meanwhile, there are 'foreigners' born and raised in Italy who cannot take the Italian citizenship before they turn 18, and many 'Italians' who have never set a foot in Italy, have no intention to, and don't even speak the language.


    I can understand wanting to reconnect with their roots, but you don't need citizenship to take a long vacation in Italy. This is plain exploitation.

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    Quote from UK Man

    Having said that there has been quite an increase this year in Argentines inquiring if they qualify for a Spanish passport. Can't say I blame them either. Of the small number who do qualify few actually ever make the move a permanent one though.

    Adri's mother has an appointment with the Spanish embassy soon to renew her Spanish passport and it appears that the rules may have changed again, allowing her children and grandchildren to acquire Spanish passports.

    I'm encouraging this as, even if you don't take advantage of the right to live in Europe, it's good to have it as an option.

    Quote from Splinter

    Adri's mother has an appointment with the Spanish embassy soon to renew her Spanish passport and it appears that the rules may have changed again, allowing her children and grandchildren to acquire Spanish passports.

    I'm encouraging this as, even if you don't take advantage of the right to live in Europe, it's good to have it as an option.

    I was under the impression that there was a similar arrangement between Argentina and Italy. Wrong?

    Quote from serafina

    As I wrote above, with Italy you can apply as long as you had somebody in the family who was italian in 1861. Some people are applying through their GGGGF.

    My misconception was that the great great grandchildren would receive Italian passports by merely applying. Your post educated me on the red tape!

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    Actually, people born to Italian parents are already Italian by birth. They just need to get recognized. This involves proving you 'descend' from them. The closer the Italian relative (already known as an Italian before Italian authorities), the easier.


    But some people are scavenging microfilms and hiring genealogists to find out about that far ancestor who was said to be from Italy, and once you find it and can meet some basic requirements (basically, that the Italian-ancestry line was never broken). Some people are going as far as 4-5 generations ago.


    This involves finding birth certificates (or church registrations), marriage, death, etc. They write to Italian municipalities to find them, and Italian municipalities are required to answer and mail certificates around the world. It is a big workload and it costs money to the Italian Public Administration.

    A friend of mine working in a small municipality (2,000 inhabitants) said they get about 15 inquiries per week. Last month he received one from his relatives from La Plata. He knew he had some in Argentina, but nobody in his family was in contact with them.


    This citizenship hunt takes years. Some consulates are giving appointments two years from now and then they need to wait other 2-4-6 years. People on the internet are letting other knows when a spot frees in advance or if they have to cancel their appointment due to major force. I don't think they are selling appointments, but it really seems third world hunger. And all over paperworks.


    I am not against equal opportunities for all, but I don't think this is the right way to do it.

    I know things are getting pretty bad for a lot of people. Salaries aren't going up as fast as prices. We have to constantly find new suppliers to keep old suppliers in check on prices because everyone simply goes nuts when they hear the peso is tanking against the Dollar or Euro.I recently rRead an article about people eating less beef and more pasta - but that certainly isn't new! At least not since Cristina days.


    However, the folks I talk to on a daily basis don't seem completely freaked out. It's something they are used to. They get by.


    I've lived here for 12 years now and one thing has remained constant: people have always asked me what in the Hell am I doing here in Argentina! I think this survey may have always produced similar numbers if asked over the years, given how often I've been asked that question. From the Peso at 2.9 to the Dollar, to where it is today (and I haven't looked at the price in a couple of weeks - can't bring myself to do so until i must).

    I expect that in your business, the wildly fluctuating food prices must make it really hard to anticipate costs more than a week in advance, ElQueso ?


    serafina , I am astounded at the length of time and the financial commitment people will accept in order to have a second passport. But there are advantages, to be sure. If the EU stays together, there are educational benefits among others.