Coronavirus around the world

I think we’ll see a lot of football teams in the UK. Mother in goal, nan up front, aunt Margaret spraying passes from midfield.

This is a darkly fascinating glimpse into exactly how a small gathering can spread the virus through a town and beyond.

daniel , I’m so glad you persuaded your family to postpone the memorial gathering this summer. This article has reminded me that we won’t be making plans with family for Thanksgiving or Christmas, the one time we always spend together every year.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/20…at-spread-hundreds-miles/

The Argentine press does seem almost uniquely devoid of curiosity. Add to that, the Argentine government’s failure to keep the public informed during the pandemic.

Today, the CDC Director suddenly and, given his political nature, surprisingly announced that the public should all be wearing masks. Imagine that! Even more surprising is that he said wearing masks is more effective at preventing the spread of the virus than a vaccine would be.

What kind of prevention advice is the Fernandez govt providing?

Splinter , can you tell us anything about the presenter’s credentials or the reliability of his data and conclusions?

I watched about a third of this, but before continuing, I thought I’d like to know something about the man with the charming Irish accent.

There's no doubt that so far COVID deaths are not reaching the global death levels of flu, annualy.

The only problem here is we just don't know what would have happened without lockdown's, restrictions, travel bans, masks, etc. It is likely that the reason COVID has not been as deadly as flu is because of those measures. Without them, who knows, we could already be looking at a death toll of millions.

Problem is, we will never know if this was the case. In reality, we needed just the one country that said no to any measures whatsoever. A sort of testing ground for what COVID could do if it was simply left to run rampant through a population.

Sweden?

Sweden never had zero measures. It took many less actions than most, but still had some restrictions. For example, bars and restaurants becoming table-only service, gatherings limited to 50 people, and some travel limits.

https://www.government.se/gove…responsible-for-covid-19/

I mean a test tube case where a country would do nothing, just treat it like another flu season and ignore it completely. What would have happened? It would be interesting to see how comparisons with flu would look under such a scenario. My belief is COVID is more infectious, but I am not entirely sure it is much more deadly.

Let's take Sweden, though, as the nearest to the hypothetical above. The country has had around 88,000 cases and around 6,000 deaths. As always with COVID, I think the number of cases must be much higher because it does not account for asymptomatic, but let's go with the official data. So, the question is, have more than 88,000 people caught flu in Sweden this year, and has flu killed more than 6,000 of them?

Well, no is probably the answer because WHO says 2,700 Swede's died of flu in 2019. So, at least in Sweden, COVID is showing itself to be more deadly than the flu. Is the difference between 2,700 and 8,000 deaths (estimating end-of-year rate) enough to suggest Sweden should have gone into deep restrictions like other countries? I am not sure and like other things related to COVID, how it has spread is so strange. Why did it kill tens of thousands in some countries with deep restrictions (UK, Italy, Argentina), but only be relatively comparable to flu in the likes of Sweden?

Maybe the Swedes have superior immune systems!

Quote from Semigoodlooking

Sweden never had zero measures. It took many less actions than most, but still had some restrictions. For example, bars and restaurants becoming table-only service, gatherings limited to 50 people, and some travel limits.

https://www.government.se/gove…responsible-for-covid-19/

I mean a test tube case where a country would do nothing, just treat it like another flu season and ignore it completely. What would have happened? It would be interesting to see how comparisons with flu would look under such a scenario. My belief is COVID is more infectious, but I am not entirely sure it is much more deadly.

Let's take Sweden, though, as the nearest to the hypothetical above. The country has had around 88,000 cases and around 6,000 deaths. As always with COVID, I think the number of cases must be much higher because it does not account for asymptomatic, but let's go with the official data. So, the question is, have more than 88,000 people caught flu in Sweden this year, and has flu killed more than 6,000 of them?

Well, no is probably the answer because WHO says 2,700 Swede's died of flu in 2019. So, at least in Sweden, COVID is showing itself to be more deadly than the flu. Is the difference between 2,700 and 8,000 deaths (estimating end-of-year rate) enough to suggest Sweden should have gone into deep restrictions like other countries? I am not sure and like other things related to COVID, how it has spread is so strange. Why did it kill tens of thousands in some countries with deep restrictions (UK, Italy, Argentina), but only be relatively comparable to flu in the likes of Sweden?

Display More

There has been a major difference in the way deaths have been counted worldwide. Pre covid19 if you were in hospital with a heart attack or late stage cancer and contracted influenza then died a week or two later the death would not be put down to influenza but the main cause . Dying with covid and dying of covid are completely different things that for whatever reason and that is whole other debate this year are all being put down as covid on death certificate. The 3 or 4 months in UK that this was at its peak pretty much nobody died of anything other than covid...In fact England was caught out as they had no cut off point of covid being the cause of death if you had tested positive and you were hit by a bus or committed suicide 3 months after contracting covid then it was a covid death. Scotland had a cut off point of 28 days which only recently England has followed. The same thing happened with the reporting of numbers in Hospital with Covid...If you contracted Covid in hospital but it cleared up you were still counted as a covid case until you left hospital..in some cases months later. Scotland went from 256 one week to 52 the next week just by counting the actual real numbers..

The numbers dying over the course of 12 months are going to be not far off the yearly average of deaths..Just counted differently.

In one week we had 6 deaths...4 in a care home and 2 in Hospital....and they are talking about a second wave...They are now testing for coronavirus and not covid 19 which completely changes the numbers because they know the PCR us utter rubbish ..words used by the Scottish health minister...So tghis test can pick up the common cold and other various strains of coronavirus which have been around for centuries.

They have also been caught out over amplyfing the actual tests...they should not use more that 30 times amplyfication but they are using 35 to 40 which has shown so many false postives as it picks up dead virus from months ago and shows as a positive...This is known but only briefly reported and certainly not to the majority on the 6pm news....They want us scared and compliant...I am hearing exactly the same from friends in france and germany.

France now has more daily cases than at is peak ...but no deaths....same as uk and most of Europe....but they are still talking about a second wave and more lockdowns..Huge protests in Berlin a few weeks ago 1.2 million people protesting..In London today another big protest...

I will see if i can find the data re deaths ...The speakers at the protest i attended in Edinburgh were excellent...I suggest you look up Prof Doloros Cahill a world renowned immunologist who has lost her career speaking out over this and Dr Malcolm Kendrick and DR Richard Enos ...There are many many more but these i found very brave people and very well respected.

There are the Deaths from Covid19 .

France and UK 3000 to 8000 infections daily for weeks..

No deaths for months..

Same all over Europe.

Infection rate is irrelevant if its not deadly..some would argue its better we all get infected for herd immunity..

Absolutely no need to vaccinate the world as our new leader mr Bill Gates is so fond of saying at every opportunity.

Very appropriate cartoon. I think the CDC’s about face was about aerosols, the teeny tiny particles that float around in the air for hours. Or don’t.

But I don’t think they are questioning the particles exhaled In droplets when we talk, sing, sneeze, breathe.

All very confusing in the days following the revelation that the administration’s non-scientific henchman installed between the CDC and the public, had been significantly altering their findings. thought that the propaganda problem been fixed. Maybe not. In any case, the world has learned to distrust any pronouncements coming from the USA.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0…17777ac551a264ffa642c8bd4

Having essentially eliminated the coronavirus, New Zealand is now reopening flights and businesses.

Who is most successfully beating the virus? Who is doing the worst job?

Whilst no doubt New Zealand have done an excellent job that graph is of no practical use.

If the UK was to do testing of only those that were in hospital because of this we would have zero or next to zero cases as would all of Europe. This is how we all tested in March/april...Hospital admissions only...

The testing has changed....If you test thousands of healthy people for Coronavirus your going to find it....The PCR test can not tell the difference between covid19 and the common cold or someone who has had a flu jab.

You notice its says testing for coronavirus...Not covid19.

Here every sept the common cold is prevelant when kids go back to school...Every year it is the same.

Why the fascination in the media with cases now....its because nobody in Europe is dying of it....more testing..more faulty testing...more cases...more excuse for these draconian measures ....People are seeing right through this utter nonsense...

“Utter nonsense” being the way testing is done, the “fascination” with number of cases, or the threat of the virus itself?

Quote from Rice

“U5tter nonsense” being the way testing is done, the “fascination” with number of cases, or the threat of the virus itself?

I think its clear the testing is extremely flawed...A fact our government knows these RT - PCR should not be used as a diagnostic tool.

The way the media is focusing on cases where it was deaths before...Deaths are barely mentioned over here now as there are so few and those that do die are mainly in nursing homes or have major co morbidity..

And the virus death rate is actually not as deadly as an average flu season never mind a bad one...Yes to a certain part of the population it is risky..but to 99.99% it is not...The figures dont lie but the government and media do.

So in answer to your question the utter nonsense that continues to surround all aspects of this farcical situation we find ourselves in. Bearing in mind my father caught this and has full blown dementia and parkinsons and is in a home so i have first hand experience of just how ill you have to be to die from this.

hairyscotsman . Interesting viewpoint . I wonder is an age group thing

I have three sisters in the Glasgow area - all above 60 and in the potential high risk group .

They all have friends who have had the virus and the general feeling is its a lot worse that the flu . One of them is still ill after three months.

I am watching France, Spain and Germany right now to see what happens there

Meanwhile , my sisters are sticking to the rules as Wee Nicola is communicating them

Yes perhaps its partly an age thing..I think a lot of is more to do with what or who's narrative you are listening to.

Younger generation far more likely to question things and have access to alternative sources of information and facts rather than government models.

I agree for some its not a pleasant experience far worse than flu..For most however its no worse than a cold at worst and no symptoms overwhelmingly ...And death rate is so low compared to cases that its no worse than a flu season .

Ahh yes our inspiring leader....So today she decided one household can not mix with another household in there home...But we can meet in a pub...We must have our mask on when we enter...may take it off to drink and eat...Going to the toilet....ohhh mask back on...all touching the same doors etc then back to the table and mask off again.....Then we need to close the pubs at 10pm as we all know the virus is worse between 10pm and midnight...You actually could not make this shit up....but thats exactly what they want us to do...2 weeks ago (dont have figures for this week) 6 people died with covid listed on death certificate not dying from but with...4 in a care home and 2 in hospital in Scotland...And this is what they are doing for this situation....Its time these people were held accountable for there insane predictions and models .

This is clearly not about health and not overwhelming the health service as they first suggested as approx 1% of beds have covid patients across the UK

For me and many others if this was really a 2nd wave which its not then surely you would follow the model that Sweden used so effectively rather than repeat what we did the last time.

This has nothing to with public health.